Skyview 3.0 & Jeppesen data for Canada as example

[cbthorne]

Folks,
This may help others outside of the USA. You have to contact Jeppesen by phone or via their online access agents to order NAV @ OBST data from them. You can order the full year subscription or a single copy. I am bench testing my D1000 until my plane is completed about one year from now. I explained my bench testing situation to the online agent and they sold me one copy of NAV and one copy of OBST data so I can test my unit further and test with Canadian coverage data. I have all of the latest USA data installed from Dynon and so this is a supplement to the US data. I have not downloaded from Jeppesen the data yet but will update you with further comments later.

 

[mmarien]

Re: Skyview 3.0 & Jeppesen data for Canada as exam

The USA FAA data already has several radio NAV positions plus obstacles in Canada. What will be interesting to see is if both the FAA and the Jeppesen data can be loaded at the same time, what happens to duplicate information. :-?

Keep us informed.

For my own interest I compared the Dynon FAA USA data to my Garmin GPS495. There are similar obstacles around CYXE but the Dynon only has one VOR and one NDB while the Garmin shows several plus airports and airspaces. The Garmin NAV data on the 495 was updated last spring.

 

[dynonsupport]

Re: Skyview 3.0 & Jeppesen data for Canada as exam

You cannot load two databases at once.

 

[mmarien]

Re: Skyview 3.0 & Jeppesen data for Canada as exam

What is the coverage of the Jeppesen. Worldwide or do we have to pick a region?

 

[dynonsupport]

Re: Skyview 3.0 & Jeppesen data for Canada as exam

Generally, you pick a region.

You may buy worldwide if you wish, but it is more expensive.

Regions available:

Contiguous USA, East-Central USA, West-Central USA, North America, South America, Europe, Africa, Eurasia, the Middle East, the Pacific region, and worldwide.

 

[cbthorne]

Re: Skyview 3.0 & Jeppesen data for Canada as exam

Final Chapter
Using “Jeppesen Data Services” for those outside of the USA

For newbies to Jeppesen such as myself this may be of assistance.
For access to Jeppesen for NAV and OBST data outside of the USA you need to do the following.
Order the package that you want from an online assist agent or phone them. (You can’t order on the web page.)
Set up a Login and password for yourself on the Jeppesen.com web page.
Note: There are two web pages that you will access but both use the same login that you generate and you can only be logged onto one at a time. http://Jeppesen .com is their main web page and http://jeppdirect.jeppesen.com is their online store. Just go to the main Jeppesen web page and there is a link to Jeppdirect online store on the main page, then log in.
As mentioned earlier in this post I only wanted a single copy of “North America” coverage as my plane about a year from completion.
The Customer. Care agent will give you an order/invoice #.
You are able to make payment for this order/invoice online via the JeppDirect web page. If you are ordering a single copy of data for your area then as you get down the payment page be sure to enter YES at the “Do you wish to renew subscription” option.
You have to load the Jeppesen software called (JSUM) “Jeppesen" Services Update Manager” onto the PC this is where you will do all of your updating from. This software is available for download at the JeppDirect.com web page. Look under “Support” link at top of page. When you run your JSUM software it will ask for a user name and password, use the same user name and password that you use to log onto Jeppesen. The software will go online automatically and look for your customer number and see if you have any data packages to download. Sometime after you have paid for your Data package purchase you can run the JSUM program and it will auto look to see if there is data packages for you to download. This can take up to 24 hours before they appear. Help files are available in the JSUM program and should be read.
Use JSUM and download your purchase once it shows up in the JSUM screen. Have your DYNON USB memory stick in your PC.
There are two steps now.
1. First download the file/files that you wish to save and they will show downloaded in the JUM screen.
2. Second you will “Program” that file to the DYNON USB memory stick. This “Program” step needs to be done to the Root Directory of the DYNON memory stick so that it includes the hidden license files associated. You can not just save and copy the .dup files to your Dynon memory stick because the hidden license files will not be included and the DYNON will not allow the upgrade to your Dynon to complete.
3. Third, once the files have been “Programmed” onto your DYNON USB Memory stick you can then connect it to your “Skyview” unit and upgrade as usual.
DYNON tech support is correct, only the US only data or the Jeppesen country specific (ie North America) data can be loaded at any one time. The “North America” data package is not as robust as the FAA’s US only data that DYNON supplies. You can however have a “North America” Jeppesen data stored on your USB as well as your FAA US only data. This would allow you to load the NAmerica data if you are flying into Canada on rare occasions. The N-America data package for NAV data and OBST data cost me $110.25 for a one time copy.
Hope this helps someone!

 

[cbthorne]

Re: Skyview 3.0 & Jeppesen data for Canada as exam

My Jeppesen data has been loaded and tested now for the Canadian content. After detailed testing of the database it appears all of the US content is pretty good except there is no information in any of the airport "Remarks" folders for Canada or the US. You might be interested to note that over 95% of all Canadian airports with runways of less than 3900 feet do not show any runway information. A phone call to Nav Canada resulted in a comment that the full airport info from the "Canada Flight Suppliment" is issued to the resellers of this data. This must be true as it seems other vendors have all of the runway data and more. I will see if Jeppesen can help explain why some critical info on runways is missing. Maybe there is a filter of some kind built into their conversion software.

 

[mmarien]

Re: Skyview 3.0 & Jeppesen data for Canada as exam

I was just thumbing through the CFS and wondering why it wasn't available in digital format. It would be nice to find an affordable version of the Canadian data that Dynon could convert. Reseller may be the $obstacle that Dynon mentioned. It would be nice to see all the airports in synthetic vision, but if the runway data is missing in the Jeppesen data that isn't going to happen.

There are a lot of complaints about the mapping upgrade. I guess we should realize that this is Dynon's first attempt at a mapping product and we are comparing it to mature products that have been on the market for a number of years. Many of those companies also have a automotive GPS products that outsell the avionics products 100 to 1 so adding that data to the avionics map isn't a major problem for them.

In my case I have a GPS495 in my panel and a panel reserved for the GDU375 as a future upgrade. Given the release of the GNT750 I'm hoping for a lottery win so I can go whole hog. The all in one vision (G1000 style) that Dynon has for Skyview is nice but I think there is a natural division between flight instrumentation, navigation and communication. Terrain, traffic and obstacles look good in synthetic vision, but I still look at the map to see where I am. I won't give up my SV, but I'm glad I kept some space available should something amazing come along. The good news is that all those products are starting to work well together. It makes no difference to me if I plot the route on the SV or something else. Well maybe it does. Did you see the rubber banding style of changing the route on the Garmin magic. But I digress.

Reading the comments since the release of ver 3.0 and the Jeppesen data has been disconcerting, but I think I'm going to purchase the mappng software anyhow. If for nothing else then to encourage Dynon to keep on developing an excelent product - and the chance of seeing an airstrip in SV .

 

[cbthorne]

Re: Skyview 3.0 & Jeppesen data for Canada as exam

Love the comment on the Rubber Banding ability. Sure hope that DYNON will incorporate this in their multi routing software when it comes out. I have been using a inexpensive Canadian VFR/IFR flight planning software called "Flight Wizard". It hs been a fabulous feature of this flight planning software.
Calvin

 

[cbthorne]

Re: Skyview 3.0 & Jeppesen data for Canada as exam

Sent this note to JEPPESEN tech. support to have some testing done regarding missing runway data on most airfields in Canada of 3900 feet and less. Will update with their response.
Emmett,
Thanks so much for your detailed response to our problem. However the 4 obscure airports that you picked for testing are a few of the 5% that do show up on my DYNON D1000 as well. Could you please test and tell us what you get testing these major Canadian towns?
CEM4, CEN4, CEL4, CYBP, CEF6, CFD4, CYCT, CER2, CEA6, CFX6, CAQ4, CAQ5, CAU3, CAV3, CZML, CEV5, CFX2, CJD5, CEG3, CJB8, CAA8, CEA5, CCK3, CJV5, CES4, AND CEV7. I could go on but this should suffice.
Also can you explain why we loose all of the data that was in the “Remarks” folder on American airports when we load your “North America” data set?
We look forward to your reply
Regards
Calvin Thorne
Canada

 

[cbthorne]

Re: Skyview 3.0 & Jeppesen data for Canada as exam

JEPPESEN is being most helpfull. They have deduced that the "Remarks" folder in airport data is not a file section that they can fill and suspect it is a DYNON specific data area. Below is the latest response from JEPPESEN regarding runway data tested on their test bed.

Calvin,
Thanks for the additional information on the “Remarks” folder. I think you are correct that this data must be coming from the FAA database.

Using the examples you provided below I confirmed that the runway records for those locations are being screened out of the Dynon navdatabase. I have our Corporate Standards group investigating why this is happening and as soon as they have additional information I will advise their findings and any actions we will be taking.
Thank you,
Emmett Jerome
Analyst - Advanced Navigation & Display Support
Jeppesen Sanderson, Inc.
55 Inverness Drive East
Englewood, CO 80112
Tel: 303-328-4445
Fax: 303-328-4122
e-mail: navdatatechsupport@jeppesen.com

 

[dynonsupport]

Re: Skyview 3.0 & Jeppesen data for Canada as

ARINC-424 (the format we get from Jeppesen) doesn't support remarks at all, we get that from a totally different database in the USA.

We didn't have it in the USA when we were only using the FAA's ARINC-424 either.

 

[mmarien]

Re: Skyview 3.0 & Jeppesen data for Canada as exam

Thanks for digging into this Calvin. The reply from Jeppesen is encouraging.

 

[dynonsupport]

Re: Skyview 3.0 & Jeppesen data for Canada as exam

So we're hearing you here, and we're trying to figure out where we can improve things in SkyView to create a better mapping experience for non-US customers. There are a bunch of things in the threads floating up from all of you, and we're trying to figure out precisely where SkyView isn't stacking up.

To help us aggregate some data, we've created a little web form survey at http://www.dynonavionics.com/map-feedback to get some more concrete data from all of you. If you're willing to take a few minutes to fill it out, even if you've posted here, we'd really appreciate it.

 

[cbthorne]

Re: Skyview 3.0 & Jeppesen data for Canada as exam

Thank you DYNON for working with all of us who want to assist in testing and improving your product. I will use your new feedback link re: MAPS to assist further.

Here is the latest from JEPPESEN
Good morning Calvin
As promised below I have some additional information regarding the missing Canadian information. Each individual avionics manufacturer dictates exactly what Jeppesen information will be contained in the Navdata subscriptions for their systems. Dynon has advised us that they do not wish to receive runways that do not have source provided runway end coordinates. For Canadian locations we depend on NavCanada for all information including runway coordinates. In the case of each example that you provided below, NavCanada does not publish runway end coordinates, so following the directive from Dynon, these records will not be included in the Dynon Navdata subscriptions. If at some point in the future Dynon advises that they would like the Navdata subscriptions to include runways with no source provided coordinates we will include the data.

Please let me know if you have any additional questions.
Best regards,
Emmett Jerome
Analyst - Advanced Navigation & Display Support
Jeppesen Sanderson, Inc.

 

[dynonsupport]

Re: Skyview 3.0 & Jeppesen data for Canada as

We actually advised them the exact opposite, and have very recently been assured that we're supposed to be getting all data, regardless of whether runways have endpoints noted or not. So either Emmett is mistaken, or the data doesn't reflect what we asked for. Needless to say, we're looking into it. Thanks for the note. Can you PM us Emmett's email address so we can get in contact with him if we need to?

 

[cbthorne]

Re: Skyview 3.0 & Jeppesen data for Canada as exam

Yes will PM his info to you today.

 

[dynonsupport]

Re: Skyview 3.0 & Jeppesen data for Canada as exam

So Jeppesen has confirmed to us that Dynon is being provided with complete worldwide runway data. It is important to note that trustworthy coordinates are not available for some runways at certain airports. When trustworthy runway data is not available, Jeppesen does not provide it to Dynon or any other OEM.

So, if you are not seeing a particular runway on your SkyView, it is very likely because the runway coordinate information is not available or has been deemed untrustworthy. Therefore it is simply not available from Jeppesen in the first place.

 

[1984]

Re: Skyview 3.0 & Jeppesen data for Canada as exam

In prepartion for flying way into Canada this summer I installed the North America data from Jeppeson after also upgrading to Skyview V3.0. Reading about the problems others are having with Jeppeson, I wonder if perhaps the 3.0 terrain display has also been affected. In V2.5 the maximun range of displayed terrain was 800nm. In my V3.0 the max range display is now "only" 300nm, even though ranges of 500nm and even out to 2000nm are selectable (but show only a black, blank page). Does that mean that when I get within 300nm of Canada there may not now be any terrain data available, or is this just a matter of not trying to overload the dispaly with 2000nm worth of data? Certainly this is not an inconvenience in real world flying, but I don't want to find at the last minute I can't use my Skyview on my big trip north. Please tell me I'm not just a worry-wart. Thanks guys.

 

[dynonsupport]

Re: Skyview 3.0 & Jeppesen data for Canada as exam

You need to download the "very low resolution terrain" file that is on the 3.0 download page.

We added the zoom ranges but that meant we also needed to add a new file to show farther out zooms.