skyview, waas gps, ifr charts, canada

[bendun]

Help, my head is going to burst.

I am ready to order an efis sytem for my RV-10. I hope Dynon (3-screen D1000) will be the one, but I am supremely confused on how to use an external GPS (GTN650) to fly ifr approaches in Canada.

Dynon does not provide map/chart data for Canada. Pocket FMS does, but it looks like it is strictly VFR. Jeppesen has what I need but it looks like I would need to buy separate subscriptions for Skyview and the GTN650 and that is way too much $
deniro.

And, I still can't get a straight answer on this. If I MUST use a Certified WAAS GPS for IFR, how does it interface with Skyview. Is the GTN650 only providing position data to Skyview? Which device do I program my flight plans onto?

Help!

 

[dynonsupport]

Gary,
I think the simple way to think of this is this way: In IFR, the SkyView map doesn't exist.

All SkyView mapping, no matter where the data comes from, is VFR only. The rules in the USA and Canada say that when in IFR, your GPS must be certified if you are using it as your primary navigator. SkyView is not certified, so it is for reference only. Additionally, SkyView's map doesn't do approaches, no matter what database is loaded.

So, in IFR, all your interfacing will be with the GTN. It's where you load the approach, or put in a flight plan. It also means that you must keep this database up to date.

SkyView can show the CDI and glideslope from the GTN, and the autopilot can fly those commands. Eventually, SkyView will be able to show the whole approach on the screen as well, but this is because the data is coming from the GTN, not because you loaded it in SkyView.

So to answer your last question as direct as I can: The GTN provides the CDI and Glideslope deviations to SkyView. SkyView displays this on the HSI, and the autopilot can fly this. All flight planning is done in the GTN.

 

[60av8tor]

Eventually, SkyView will be able to show the whole approach on the screen as well

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

 

[bendun]

So, I begs the question.... is there any point to having a Skyview? If the moving map can't reference the flight plan, what's the point? I have to assume that other functions such as fuel for a particular leg won't be there either. Sounds like I would just have steam gauges depicted on a screen without the benefit of a moving map that references where I am supposed to be heading.

 

[Bill_H]

The moving map will show everything just fine! You just can't "use" it as anything but supplemental navigation (or some official phrase like that) for IFR. Of course starting in the 1990s, handheld primitive GPS units were actually being used on IFR flights as far more accurate than the VORs even though they were "backups"

 

[bendun]

But am I correct.... if I am flying IFR, and my flight plan must use the Certified GPS, the Skyview moving map will not show anything related to my flight plan? I guess it might show me that I'm about to fly into a mountain though. So does one need to program 2 flight plans? 1 on the Dynon, and 1 on the GTN 650? Also.... let's say I turn off the GTN, am I correct that Dynon won't show any approach intel?

 

[dynonsupport]

The point of the SkyView GPS function is that it is an extremely good VFR GPS for customers that don't need a $9,000 certified GPS in the plane because they don't fly IFR with a GPS. Only about 25% of experimental planes are IFR equipped. The SkyView map also gives you extremely good situational awareness and terrain avoidance, even in IFR.

An IFR install requires a CDI or HSI. A steam HSI is about $10,000. So we saved you that

Today, the SkyView will not sync with the flight plan in the GTN, nor show the flight plan on the Dynon map page. But not for long. This feature is high on our list.

If the GTN dies, the SkyView does not show approaches. It is not a backup IFR approach GPS.

 

[bendun]

I assume that you aware that the Garmin G3X is fully integrated with a WAAS Certified GPS. Flight plans entered into the IFR GPS are transferred to the G3X.

I would prefer the Dynon mainly because of the larger screen. Any idea when Dynon will have something close to what the G3X can do?

 

[GalinHdz]

I assume that you aware that the Garmin G3X is fully integrated with a WAAS Certified GPS.

The G3X has a WAAS GPS receiver but it is not certified. For that you still require an IFR certified GPS along the lines of a G430W and the ARINC-429 module, just like the Skyview.
http://www8.garmin.com/aviation/brochures/g3x_brochure.pdf

Today, the SkyView will not sync with the flight plan in the GTN, nor show the flight plan on the Dynon map page. But not for long. This feature is high on our list.

Many of us a re looking forward to this upgrade.

 

[dabear]

The G3X has a waas GPS, but you should check with your local FSDO, I don't believe it's IFR Certified; therefore you can't use it for /G IFR flights.

As for integration with an IFR GPS, the post just above yours from Dynon states its coming.

If you don't like the Dynon and like the Garmin G3X, then go for it. There is no perfect EFIS. Dynon has been upgrading the SV system for over many years now and continues to improve it. I like it, but you are more than welcome to go find what you like.

 

[bendun]

I think I might have misled you. I DO want the Dynon system. I much prefer it because of the larger screen and more function buttons. The G3X requires more fiddling with a joystick for entering transponder codes, frequencies, etc. I am trying to discern if the Dynon system has the same functions. I suspect there is some "reading between the lines" when it comes to what the manufacturer of an "uncertified" product is able to say. The G3X is also "uncertified" but when you pair it with a certified WAAS GPS it becomes a "legal" IFR platform. A flight plan entered into the certified GPS gets uploaded to the G3X (I believe this is a new feature?) and it sounds like Dynon will be able to do that soon as well.

 

[GalinHdz]

The G3X is also "uncertified" but when you pair it with a certified WAAS GPS it becomes a "legal" IFR platform.

The same as the Skyview.

 

[johnsteichen]

I fly Skyview IFR with the GTN 750. They are a wonderful matched pair. I flew it IFR in Canada this summer.
In the US, with the Seattle avionics IFR plates. The aircraft is depicted on the approach plates. Perfect!
It will be great when the the dynon Skyview will accept and paint the GTN flight plan BUT they are a great combo even without that feature. I had forgotten they were still working on that. The autopilot in Skyview is nicely driven by the GTN in Canada with the Canadian approaches in the GTN database.
I don't know if Seattle avionics does Canadian approach charts for the Skyview. Fully coupled approaches and an included flight director. I never ever thought I would have a flight director in my glastar

 

[dynonsupport]

Gary,
Sounds like we are all on the same page. It does sound like the "cross-fill" is the main feature that you are looking at, and as we say, it is something that is a high priority for us, so I believe we will have it for you before you are flying your plane (assuming you aren't building one in two weeks!). This feature is the next big step in our integration with IFR navigators.

Just to be clear, SkyView is already a legal IFR platform with a GTN. Just because our map doesn't sync the flight plan has nothing to do with that. You aren't allowed to reference the map on SkyView (or the G3X) in IFR no matter what, so while it's a nice feature, it doesn't change if the system is allowed in IFR. Your GTN is your navigator, and the EFIS' PFD is the HSI display of data from the navigator.

 

[lindsayj]

It is not clear in all the above that you can type the same flight plans into the SkyView GPS that you type into the GTN or GNS WAAS (certified GPS's) and use the resulting course lines for situational awareness and confirmation. You just need to steer from the HSI (or the certified GPS's)to be legal as previously discussed. Jack L

 

[Dynon]

That's all true, but obviously it's better to not have to do the dual-entry. We're working on it

 

[GalinHdz]

That's all true, but obviously it's better to not have to do the dual-entry. We're working on it

Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?

JK

 

[lindsayj]

That's all true, but obviously it's better to not have to do the dual-entry. We're working on it

Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?

JK

Does that objective include loading approaches perhaps?
Jack L

 

[ploucandco]

Does that objective include loading approaches perhaps

That would be extra neat! The GNS480 associated with an MX20 support this feature through the garmin proprietary MAPMX protocol.

But in order for Dynon to realise that, the IFR plates database would require specific tags as well as getting specific information from the GTN or GNS on which approach is loaded. This is not available through MAPCOM and I didn't see that on the ARINC labels that the GNS outputs. There is always the opportunity to match an approach with a list of waypoints, but I wonder if the implementation effort (also recurrent for the plates provider) is worth the added value for the user.

 

[Rileyrst]

Re: skyview, waas gps, ifr charts

Are there any updates to this discussion?
1) does Skyview share flight plan inputs with Garmin GTN650?
2) does Skyview with GPS2020 enable any IFR uses?
3) do I still need Seattle Av plus Jeppesen updates for IFR?