VNAV indication questions

8181C

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Can someone give me some enlightenment or additional explanation as to how the new VNAV is suppose to work? On Page 7-70 of the user manual it describes the blue tick mark and the magenta line differences. The picture attached to the explanations shows the glide slope below the runway threshold. Question - 1) is the magenta line a MDA target? 2) what is the blue tick mark associated with? your aircrafts current altitude or a 3 degree glideslope?
Thanks
Larry ::)
 

preid

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my guess
[ch8203]
VNAV- MAP->MAP MENU->VS REQ’D OPTIONS where one can program a specific glide slope and target altitude above the runway altitude.
example I need 3.2 degrees to get to my airport but normally its a 3.0 glide slope. Like the old blue arc, one sets the altitude above and distance from point. 1000ft agl at 1 mile from airport, following that pre-programmed glide slope the magenta line is the VSI required to reach the designated point, the blue line is the required VSI needed to reach the desired GS, so if blue is below magenta your high and need to increase to blue VSI, which will get closer to magenta and eventually, when on GS (blue), the two will be at same point to indicate on GS.
If familiar with how the HSI looks and the "+" for on GS aligned with runway on an ILS approach, the blue line on VNAV would the horizontal line on that HSI indicating above or below the Glideslope.
Hope that makes sense.
 

Dynon

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Yeah, this one could use a bit of explanation. Powerful tool, not sure we did the best job of describing it.

First, the setup. There are two sets of settings, one for airports and one for runways, because when you're going generally to the airports, you're might be more comfortable with steeper approach guiadance and/or descent rates.

When are each of the above settings active? When you're on a flight plan to an airport, it uses the airport settings. When you're direct-to a runway (new v15 feature), it uses the runway settings.

The vertical-speed oriented settings are hopefully self-explanatory enough. They drive the magenta line guidance.

The angle setting drives the blue line guidance.

Now what do each tell you?

The magenta line is the vertical speed you need to maintain "right now" to get to the target you defined in setup. If you have a flight plan, it follows it so that it takes any extra distance into account.

The blue line is telling you what vertical speed you'd need to maintain to fly the glidepath through space you programmed in setup. It doesn't care about the airport, runway, or any terrain. If you fly the VS it's marking, you're flying the angle programmed. The blue line guidance only shows up once you're in a descent of at least a hundred feet per minute (not positive on the number), too.

So what falls out of this is, if you put the magenta line on the blue line, and then fly that vertical speed, you'll fly a perfect X degree glidepath to the airport or runway. And this next part isn't that obvious, but if you treat the blue line a reference point, and the magenta line as glide path needle, you can fly the magenta needle just like you would a conventional glideslope. IE, if magenta is above blue, keep holding your altitude. You're not targeting any specific VS at this point. Eventually the magenta will settle onto the blue. Then, put your airplane's VS on the lined up bars, and you're on glidepath.
 

8181C

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Thank you for the explanation. I will give it a try and see if I can make it all work and let you know. :D
 

rogersmart

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Ok but you didn’t discuss the autopilot. Will it fly this glidepath? Will it capture it?
Say I am flying direct-to an airport using autopilot in expert mode. It is set to Nav and Alt Hold as you would in normal cruise. Can I arm the Vnav and the autopilot change mode to Vnav when the magenta line settles on the blue and fly the glidepath down?
 

meljordan

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Yes, if you arm VNAV while in ALT Hold mode, the AP will intercept the blue line glide slope and fly that descent angle. If you have also selected a runway as your Direct To , the AP will fly an intercept to the runway extended centerline as well. So the result is like flying an ILS or LPV approach, but there are several things to keep in mind.

1. This is not in any way an approved approach, there is no terrain or obstacle clearance assurance provided as in a published approach.
2. This function works for a "straight in" approach and not for a normal VFR traffic pattern. Thus there could be traffic conflicts.
3. While it does work very well, it is not as accurate as an approach driven by a certified NAV device flying a published procedure.

So this is a neat tool to have and could prove quite useful in a pinch, but it does need to be practiced in order to know how to set it up and when to arm the AP functions. Go find a quiet semi-abandoned airport and fly several "approaches ", it's a great way to become familiar with the expert AP functions.
 

carlp101

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I tried an autopilot (AP) approach to the runway today and found the following:

1. I approached the extended centre line on autopilot (AP) in ALT HOLD and TRK mode for a 90 degree intercept. I had armed VNAV mode.
 

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carlp101

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2. Once the plane got close enough the AP automatically transitioning from TRK to GPS and turned onto the extended centre line.
 

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carlp101

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3. Once the plane had approached the 4 degree glide slope the AP transitioned to VNAV mode and lowered the nose.
 

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carlp101

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4. I reduced the power to the usual approach setting and the AP flew the glide path well until I cancelled it at 1000' AAL.
 

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carlp101

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However, the AP was approaching the runway about 10 meters to right. I tried this a few times and on different runways and it always approached about 10 meters to the right.

Dynon, any ideas?
 
K

KRviator

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How does the runway position look when you're on the threshold? Is it displaced as well, suggesting the coordinates for it in the database are very slightly off?
 

Savannah_flyer

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I had the same issue:approaching the runway at about 10-12 meters to the right. On ground there was an offset but it was around 2 meters-not more. So, I don't think that we are dealing with a "misplaced" runway or threshold.
 

rv8

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Having an issue with V-Nav. I tried it today at several airports and the autopilot fly's the plane too low. I tried setting the VS required numbers to 0 NM from threshold 50' above and 3.5 deg slope. Any one else have this issue.
 

preid

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I hand fly most of the time including the landing- I too had the same issue, except the magenta line worked great for me until 1NM and 400 than just dropped. I spoke with Dynon about this and was told to change the runway setting to 0NM (threshold) and 50- same as you have and that would resolve my issue- so user settings in my case. Are you sure you are not flying the autopilot in "airport" mode- aka goes to 1000 than flies too low? specifically are you doing INFO/RWY/ choosing the runway your flying to and D->? if so you do have an issue if not, like me its a user adjustment that should resolve this.
I plan to go out and try the new settings to see if that resolves my issue, if I get the same results as you I'll advise.
 

preid

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I had the same issue:approaching the runway at about 10-12 meters to the right. On ground there was an offset but it was around 2 meters-not more. So, I don't think that we are dealing with a "misplaced" runway or threshold.

I have always had this issue, I havent flown enough with v15 to see if that was resolved. I ended up making a user point right on the runway threshold (I literally got on the threshold and used the LAT/LONG on that spot to create the user point. Has lined me up everytime since, if I fly the D-> to airport it takes me off course everytime.
I'll give the direct to runway a try in next couple of days and see if it aligns correctly. Will advise
 

carlp101

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How does the runway position look when you're on the threshold? Is it displaced as well, suggesting the coordinates for it in the database are very slightly off?


I'll try it this weekend. I used to have my own runway threshold way points, but deleted them when I saw Dynon had enabled the VNAV capability (a very welcome thing).
 

carlp101

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I've had some problems recently with the auto pilot no transitioning to VNAV mode despite being on the correct heading and approaching the extended runway centre line at or below the 5 NM leg. I found that it does transition when I have the barrow set to the airfield QNH, but not if I have the QFE set. Does the VNAV transition rely on you having QNH set?

In addition, it always takes some time to transition resulting in the there being only perhaps 4 NM left to the runway. The 4 degree glide slope I have set has to become a 5 degree or greater to reach the runway. Is there any reason why it should not pick it up at 5 NM if I'm on heading and approaching from below?

Thanks
Carl
 
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