VSI Display

[jim]

It looks like this topic has come up before, but the VSI display is too small and slow to read. Any instrument pilot knows that the VSI is extremely important during approaches. We need something that we can interpret quickly without having to stare at the gage and interpret. That means having a tape or something that grows and shrinks depending on rate of clime/descent. Changing colors would also be good. Maybe white for +/- 150 fpm, red for >150 fpm rate of descent, and green or > 150 fpm rate of climb. The Garmin G1000's indicator is much easier to interpret than the Dynon.

Is this in the plans? When?

 

[aceflyingservice]

I agree. This would be a great enhancement to the EFIS.

Roger Johnson
Long EZ N34JR

 

[Canadian_JOY]

I'll second, er, better make that 'third', this request. The VSI display in its current state is virtually useless. After flying an EFIS D10 I decided I'd burn up some of my limited panel space by installing a 3 1/8" VSI below my EFIS-D100. Take a look at the go-around checklist for just about any decent airplane and you'll see the check for "positive rate of climb" figure very prominently at the top of that list. Same goes for takeoff and missed approach checklists. That's not positive climb attitude that's being checked, it's positive RATE of climb. There's a flight safety reason for climb rate to figure so prominently in checklists etc. And that's the same reason why the existing VSI needs improvement.

 

[dynonsupport]

We hear you - keep an eye on our website around the sun/fun timeframe - or come and see us at sun/fun!

 

[JetJockey]

I really don't see that this is a big problem at all. Neither the F-18 or the B-737NG has an analog VSI and I can assure you that it isn't necessary for smooth instrument flying in either aircraft. Anyone that says so needs to work on their instrument scan and learn the proper pitch/power settings to achieve the performance they are seeking. If Dynon is contemplating adding an analog VSI feature, I sincerely hope they make it an option for those of us that don't need (or want) a bunch more "rainbow" tapes floating around on an already cluttered display. Save that stuff for the MS Flight Simulator pilots.

Ray

 

[dynonsupport]

Anything we add will be de-clutterable. But I think you'll want this one

 

[mcook]

Hey, JetJockey:

Have you flown a small aircraft with either Dynon yet? I'm guessing no from your comments. And, as much as we'd all like to be flying F-18s and B-737s, most of us are in smaller aircraft that frequently are subject to up- and downdrafts that render the whole pitch/power connection momentarily moot. That's a fact. (Come to SoCal sometime when the winds are blowing, and I'll take you for a ride in my Glastar Sportsman, which is among the more stable light Experimentals, and I'll show you what I mean.)

If you don't want a tape-like VSI, which is what I'm guessing Dynon is going to implement, that's fine, but please don't turn that into a slam to the rest of us who feel like the current implementation leaves a lot to be desired.

--Marc

 

[JetJockey]

Marc,

No slam intended. I'm simply stating fact, the new generation of avionics don't use analog presentations for vertical speed. I have a D-10A in my Yak and I have absolutely no want or need for anything other than a digital VSI readout. No matter what the presentation format, you are going to be chasing the bug, needle, etc. all over the place in your SoCal thermals if you attempt to fly smoothly by relying on the VSI. It's not even possible with a true IVSI. While I was stationed at NAS China Lake, I flew a Mooney all over the Owens Valley and down to the LA basin. You are correct, it can get very rough at times, but a "better" VSI display isn't the answer to being a smoother aviator.

 

[mcook]

Fair enough. I'm not suggesting that anyone fly strictly or even mainly by the VSI, but a good, intuitive reference is, I think, important as part of the whole scan. A conventional VSI is one of the first instruments consulted when an upset is suspected, and those I've practiced in the Sportsman with the Dynon digits-only VSI are, in my view, harder than they need to be.

Fortunately, Dynon is smart enough to give us the option. I can have the tape, you can have the numbers; everyone is happy!

--Marc

 

[Thomas_Schaad]

Guys, I do agree that an analog display is always easier to interpret than a digital and always the better option. There is just one thing you should not forget: Whatever you have on your VSI, ASI, DG etc. is nothing than a result. It's the result of your attitude. Sure, turbulences can upset us quite a bit and it's nice to have all those numbers. But still, it's the result.

Kind regards

Thomas

 

[Mel]

Will the new VSI display be available for the D10?

 

[dynonsupport]

There will be no code changes for the EFIS-D10 ever, unless they are bug fixes. There is simply no more space in the memory or processing time for us to add any more features.

We still offer the upgrade to the D10A if you want to use the newer features.

 

[mcook]

Right. VSI is a result of the change in altitude based on the change in sense static pressure.

But my underlying point is that VS is a useful tool in both plain old VFR flying and for IFR/IMC flight. I can give lots of examples of an airplane pitched up with full power but still descending, or with low power pitched down but still climbing. Attitude is normally the dominant signal of a climb or descent but by no means not the only one.

I look forward to seeing how Dynon actually implements any new features.

 

[jim]

Hey JetJerk. Nobody is asking for an analog-type display on the EFIS. One guy put in an analog VSI because the Dynon VSI is too slow to interpret. We know how to control the VSI, but we need a VSI we can glance at and get the information without locking in on the VSI. That's called instrument scan. How many IMC approaches to minimums have you made using a Dynon? Try a few uncoupled under the bag and then tell us how great the present VSI is.

I really don't see that this is a big problem at all. Neither the F-18 or the B-737NG has an analog VSI and I can assure you that it isn't necessary for smooth instrument flying in either aircraft.

 

[meljordan]

Can we please keep this forum civil. I would hate to see it degrade like so many forums due to people being rude and abrasive. While we may have some differences with what someone posts, it is not really necessary to call names. Honest disagreement and discussion is a vital element to growth and understanding. Please don't degrade this forum.



Thanks,
Mel Jordan
RV-6A

 

[khorton]

Neither the F-18 or the B-737NG has an analog VSI and I can assure you that it isn't necessary for smooth instrument flying in either aircraft.

I'm not sure how relevant these observations are to aircraft that are typically fitted with Dynon EFISs.  The F-18 has a HUD, with velocity vector.  The velocity vector provides a very, very useful reference that provides much of the functionality that a VSI provides.  If you want level flight, you put the VV on the horizon line.  If you want to stay on the glideslope, you put the VV at -3 deg.  How many IMC instrument approaches have your flown in an F-18 with the HUD OFF?  

The B737 has a Flight Director which provides guidance on pitch attitudes and bank angles required to achieve a desired task.  How many hand-flown raw-data (i.e. FD OFF) instrument approaches have you flown in IMC in a B737NG?

 

[dynonsupport]

Guys,

We now have a graphical VSI, a digital VSI, or no VSI. I think we've accounted for all opinions in our products, and you're all welcome to set up your EFIS the way you want.

 

[JetJockey]

How many IMC approaches to minimums have you made using a Dynon? Try a few uncoupled under the bag and then tell us how great the present VSI is.

Jimbo,

To answer your question, sometimes as many as 4-5 per month. Many times down to ILS mins. Never had any problems. Maybe you could use a little more training if you are having difficulties.