What is the better IFR navigator to interface with Dynon HDX?
- Thread starter moetzmoet
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airguy
Active Member
Garmin is shuttering their 430/530 line. I replaced my 430W with Avidyne IFD440 a few years ago and absolutely love it - the user interface with Avidyne is so much better than Garmin.
Any of them will interface with the ARINC-429 device to feed nav data to the Dynon - but you really want to choose/use the navigator that you are most comfortable with, from a user interface perspective. That's going to be the main experience driver for you in the air.
Any of them will interface with the ARINC-429 device to feed nav data to the Dynon - but you really want to choose/use the navigator that you are most comfortable with, from a user interface perspective. That's going to be the main experience driver for you in the air.
jakej
Well-Known Member
.... and you can monitor the Standby freq plus have FTLA + IFD100 (App) control & display on an iPad etc, etc - just google the IFD to GTN comparisons & see what's different.
CanardMulti
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Both the Garmin 650/750 or the Avidyne 440/540 (or 550 which adds an AHRS board if you want an SAI built in) will do the job nicely. As stated above, preference very well may be a function of your previous experience. The Garmin interface is largely touch screen only based and more often than not needs to be backed out of one menu to enter another. They are also prettier.
The Avidynes differ in that they are both button and touch capable such that there are multiple ways to achieve input for perhaps 95% of the functions. They used to advertise that usually 2 button pushes, and almost never more than 3, will get you to the page you want. That variability can make your previous experience more applicable. If you have ever used a high level FMC professionally, their input flow simply feels more pilot friendly. If you have ever had to enter a long full reroute clearance in turbulence, you will appreciate having buttons.
One looking forward aspect you might have not considered: Avidyne goes to great lengths to make their equipment fully interoperable with a wide range of other manufacturers' avionics. Garmin equipment, while somewhat adaptable for use with other mfg. avionics, seems to often reserve complete functionality for only other Garmin products. Translation: Which will be easier to sell years from now should something new and shiny catch your eye?
Last, a BIG consideration: Check out Avidyne's FREE IFD 100 app for your iPad. Garmin has nothing like it.
Ken
The Avidynes differ in that they are both button and touch capable such that there are multiple ways to achieve input for perhaps 95% of the functions. They used to advertise that usually 2 button pushes, and almost never more than 3, will get you to the page you want. That variability can make your previous experience more applicable. If you have ever used a high level FMC professionally, their input flow simply feels more pilot friendly. If you have ever had to enter a long full reroute clearance in turbulence, you will appreciate having buttons.
One looking forward aspect you might have not considered: Avidyne goes to great lengths to make their equipment fully interoperable with a wide range of other manufacturers' avionics. Garmin equipment, while somewhat adaptable for use with other mfg. avionics, seems to often reserve complete functionality for only other Garmin products. Translation: Which will be easier to sell years from now should something new and shiny catch your eye?
Last, a BIG consideration: Check out Avidyne's FREE IFD 100 app for your iPad. Garmin has nothing like it.
Ken
Can you elaborate a bit more on this, and a way to test? I have an IFD540 and would like to know more about sending frequencies to it. Nav/Comm? I have the radio panel and send frequencies to that but have not ever seen an option to program the IFD radios from the HDX.
John Lucas
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Two different issues you asked about. If the Dynon screen loses power that means it either has no battery backup or that failed as well. In that case, I’m not sure the transponder or IFD would have power, so a non-issue for IFD control. If the screen merely failed the transponder should continue to function, but I do not think your IFD would be able to remotely control it. If already in flight, this just means you can’t change your squawk. Not really an issue compared to losing your PFD, especially if IFR.
John Lucas
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A couple additional thoughts on redundancy, if you care to hear them. Buy at least 2 ADHRS units, even if you only have one HDX screen. That provides a redundant source of info to drive your PFD. I would also buy the backup battery for each HDX screen you install providing redundancy in electrics. Finally, I’d purchase a completely standalone standby attitude indicator that also provides airspeed and altitude with its own battery backup. Whether you choose to put your IFD on a bus where one of the backup batteries would keep it going is up to you. Ensure that the additional load wouldn’t compromise your PFD or backup attitude indicator. In any case train regularly how you would handle losing your PFD in the soup. Unfortunately, the days of being able to get no gyro vectors for a radar guided approach are going away. Fortunately, a properly configured avionics package, like HDX, should never leave you needing those no gyro vectors.
airguy
Active Member
John has good advice above - I've lost an ADAHRS unit before, in flight. It happens.
Something interesting occurs as well with the Dynon if your pitot ices up - your pitch horizon goes nuts for a minute or two as the system is "anticipating" what your airplane is supposed to be doing based on the airspeed changes, and following that can get you into real trouble. Having a G5 or similar in the panel (which does NOT do that) can save your scrawny hide if you lose pitot sensing. Ignore the the Dynon pitch oscillations and fly the standby horizon until the Dynon equipment figures out the airspeed is gone and settles down, displaying "Check Pitot Heat". Then it's reliable again.
Something interesting occurs as well with the Dynon if your pitot ices up - your pitch horizon goes nuts for a minute or two as the system is "anticipating" what your airplane is supposed to be doing based on the airspeed changes, and following that can get you into real trouble. Having a G5 or similar in the panel (which does NOT do that) can save your scrawny hide if you lose pitot sensing. Ignore the the Dynon pitch oscillations and fly the standby horizon until the Dynon equipment figures out the airspeed is gone and settles down, displaying "Check Pitot Heat". Then it's reliable again.
Thanks Hohn and Airguy, good info from both. I have 2 HDX screens powered by two separate vpx circuits, both with batteries and two ADAHRS. I'm planning on an AV-30 as a stand alone backup to that. I'm wiring the IFD and AV-30 to the bus, not my vpx...in case the vpx becomes a problem. I'll have a PAR200B radio with a second radio on the IFD. Good enough redundancy and the PAR200B fails to com 1, last freq I believe. I was hoping the IFD could be a second option to control the transponder if I lost the Dynon screens/system, but not necessary.
I like having redundancy in displays and how they are powered...I've learned that through experience. If you have any more ideas I'd like to hear them.
I like having redundancy in displays and how they are powered...I've learned that through experience. If you have any more ideas I'd like to hear them.
John Lucas
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To fly an ILS you will need a certified box that receives the ILS signal and talks to the HDX. There are lots of options, Garmin and Avidyne lead the pack, but most of those options also do GPS which adds cost. A Garmin 175 provides the ability to shoot GPS approaches and does meet the minimum requirements for IFR flight. Some might call it inadequate (I wouldn’t), but you are still legal with just a VOR receiver and flying navaid to navaid, so some of this is skill and risk tolerance. The minimum IFR flight requirements are just that MINIMAL.
JP JR
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I have a Garmin 355 slaved to my Dynon for IFR navigation.. love it … I’d love it more if it Garmin allowed Dynon to control the Radio and Navigation frequency like it does on my 255 but nonetheless it does a superb job of feeding the IFR GPS navigation course to the dynon display and even better to the Dynon AP
airguy
Active Member
Kinda depends on your mission. If you are "IFR Lite" and don't mind cancelling a trip once in a while for true low ceilings where you are going, then sure the G175 will serve the great majority of your needs. Many RNAV approaches will not go below 400' ceilings, and you'll need a true ILS to get down to 200 & 1/2. Exceptions, sure - but you can't count on them. To be fair, not all airports have an ILS either - but it's a solid standby when both the weather and the fuel are getting low.
The VHF nav also gives you enroute VOR-to-VOR navigation in areas where GPS jamming is happening, which certainly seems to be more frequent.
I depend on my airplane to take me anywhere in the contiguous 48 states on short notice, that means backups, and VHF+GPS for making an approach. I started with a Garmin 430W, and upgraded to the Avidyne 440 a few years back. Same functionality but much better user interface.
The VHF nav also gives you enroute VOR-to-VOR navigation in areas where GPS jamming is happening, which certainly seems to be more frequent.
I depend on my airplane to take me anywhere in the contiguous 48 states on short notice, that means backups, and VHF+GPS for making an approach. I started with a Garmin 430W, and upgraded to the Avidyne 440 a few years back. Same functionality but much better user interface.
Marc_J._Zeitlin
Active Member
Everything you say is correct, but...
I have an HDX and GPS175. I went with the 175 rather than the 650 because I looked at every airport I'd ever flown into with an instrument approach as well as any airport I thought I'd WANT to fly into with an instrument approach and at least as of 5 years ago when I made the decision, NONE of them had a GPS approach that wasn't at least as good as the best non-GPS approach. IOW, if there was an ILS, then there was a GPS approach down to 200 ft. If there was a LOC approach, then there was a GPS approach down to 300 - 400 ft. And if there was only a VOR approach, then there was always a GPS approach with minimums that was way lower than the VOR minimums.
So while there may be airports out there that you can get into with an ILS or LOC that you can't with a GPS in a given weather situation, I wasn't able to find one, at least within a few hundred miles of my location in SoCal.
Now, the GPS jamming thing is real, but the question is really how likely it is to occur at exactly the time that you're shooting an approach. My position was that for ME, it wasn't a concern, but YMMV.
When I designed my panel, I elected to keep a KX155 GS/Loc/VOR + GNS430W + ADF-100. I have had two flights where GPS was buzzed on a GPS only approach. The closest ILS was 30 miles away. I also kept the ADF, which is handy since my based airport requires ADF for one of the ILS approaches and is the MAP hold point. I also kept the WX800 Storm scope which is out of the airplane at the moment. This week's mission took me across a forecast "widely scattered PM TRW area." Except it wasn't widely scattered and the only way around it was over an hour's deviation. First, and last time I'll fly without on-board weather, but I was very happy to have the Dynon ADS-B in combined with the Lynx 9000.
This one trip alone makes me happy I made the decisions I did, despite being called a luddite by some. Someday I'll have to give up the GNS430W, but not today. My based airport has 3 GPS approaches and two ILS approaches. Both ILS approaches are 100' lower than the LPV. But my days of flying Cat IIs are over and I don't think the extra 100' DH is something I'm interested in doing these days.
This one trip alone makes me happy I made the decisions I did, despite being called a luddite by some. Someday I'll have to give up the GNS430W, but not today. My based airport has 3 GPS approaches and two ILS approaches. Both ILS approaches are 100' lower than the LPV. But my days of flying Cat IIs are over and I don't think the extra 100' DH is something I'm interested in doing these days.