jbeaver
New Member
Other than NEXRAD, METARs and TAFs, will other parts of the FIS-B data be displayed such as winds and temperatures aloft, PIREPs, status of SUAs, AIRMETs/SIGMETs, NOTAMs, etc?
Dynon ADS-B for Skyview
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As Mel said, the delta pop one is inexpensive. There are also TSO'd antennas available (not a requirement for homebuilts, of course, but it's out there):
Experimental:
http://www.deltapopaviation.com/UAT_Antenna.html
TSO’d:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/av74_ant.php
Experimental:
http://www.deltapopaviation.com/UAT_Antenna.html
TSO’d:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/av74_ant.php
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Any transponder or DME antenna can be used as well. Very small theoretical loss of signal strength, but you're unlikely to ever notice.
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Yes. The long term plan is to support all (or most of, at least) the FIS-B products. For the initial software release, though, we're prioritizing the core weather products and TFRs.
jnmeade
Active Member
What GPS is needed for ADS-B out with the SkyView?
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Anything that SkyView can use for GPS itself (usually the SV-GPS-250 puck, but it can be from most portable or panel mount GPSes too) is usable as an uncertified - "low integrity" in FAA-speak - GPS source. This will wake up the ADS-B ground stations for reporting back the traffic picture, but won't make you "2020 mandate" compliant.
To get the full compliance, you'll need a certified GPS signal going straight to the transponder that it can substitute for SkyView's uncertified position. The bad news is that such signals just don't affordably exist today. Even the 430W/GTN/similar, which technically have the capabilities and certs, aren't approved for this use through a notice that Garmin published.
However, the good news is that you don't need to solve this problem before 2020. So should 2019 come around and no one has solved the problem via a cheap certified puck, I (single person within Dynon; a personal opinion) predict you'll see a small explosion of products at affordable prices, just like you saw this year with the ADS-B receivers.
To get the full compliance, you'll need a certified GPS signal going straight to the transponder that it can substitute for SkyView's uncertified position. The bad news is that such signals just don't affordably exist today. Even the 430W/GTN/similar, which technically have the capabilities and certs, aren't approved for this use through a notice that Garmin published.
However, the good news is that you don't need to solve this problem before 2020. So should 2019 come around and no one has solved the problem via a cheap certified puck, I (single person within Dynon; a personal opinion) predict you'll see a small explosion of products at affordable prices, just like you saw this year with the ADS-B receivers.
jeffa
New Member
I've search for this elsewhere, but haven't found a clear answer....
If we choose to use an uncertified "low-integrity" GPS source for the ADS-B out, does anyone see that? The controllers? Other aircraft? Does the ADS-B system recognize that you are not using a WAAS GPS signal for your position and somehow treat your aircraft differently?
Not saying I plan to "cheap-out" on a GPS source, just wondering how it really affects the system....
Also, what do we need to be ADB-S OUT compliant TODAY? Just a software upgrade to the Dynon transponder and a WAAS GPS signal?
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Yes, the world knows you are not transmitting certified GPS, and they get to decide what to do with this.
Generally, without a certified GPS, you get traffic. The ground stations see you and send you traffic, and other planes can see you and use this position to avoid you.
What you don't get is that the controllers can't use this data to provide primary separation. You do show up differently on their radar screens. They have to keep you and other planes farther apart than they would be allowed to if you both had complying ADS-B out on board.
Ultimately, this is a legal issue. The rules say that on Jan 1, 2020, if you fly in the USA in a place where a transponder is required (Class B and C, plus anywhere above 10K feet), then you must be ADS-B out equipped, and equipped means a certified GPS.
To be compliant with the FAA's 2020 ADS-B mandate today, you need our transponder updated to the next firmware revision (which will happen automatically when we ship the ADS-B IN software). You also need a Certified WAAS GPS which itself is compliant. Today, this is only standalone, expensive GPS units, like a FreeFlight device. Eventually, Garmin will release software updates for the GNS and GTN products to make them compliant, but as of today they are not so you can't use them.
Generally, without a certified GPS, you get traffic. The ground stations see you and send you traffic, and other planes can see you and use this position to avoid you.
What you don't get is that the controllers can't use this data to provide primary separation. You do show up differently on their radar screens. They have to keep you and other planes farther apart than they would be allowed to if you both had complying ADS-B out on board.
Ultimately, this is a legal issue. The rules say that on Jan 1, 2020, if you fly in the USA in a place where a transponder is required (Class B and C, plus anywhere above 10K feet), then you must be ADS-B out equipped, and equipped means a certified GPS.
To be compliant with the FAA's 2020 ADS-B mandate today, you need our transponder updated to the next firmware revision (which will happen automatically when we ship the ADS-B IN software). You also need a Certified WAAS GPS which itself is compliant. Today, this is only standalone, expensive GPS units, like a FreeFlight device. Eventually, Garmin will release software updates for the GNS and GTN products to make them compliant, but as of today they are not so you can't use them.
marchudson
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I'm confused about the position source.
Copied from Garmin's web site. http://www8.garmin.com/adsb/
How can I tell if I have an appropriate high-integrity WAAS position source?
Both the Garmin GNS 430W/530W and GTN series have the WAAS GPS technology capable of meeting the requirements of an ADS-B “Out” position source. These products will require a free software update expected to become available in the fourth quarter of 2012. Older, non-WAAS GNS 430/530 navigators can be upgraded to the WAAS version that has the technology. In addition to helping you reach ADS-B “Out” compliance, WAAS navigation offers additional benefits like being able to flying GPS-guided LPV glidepath instrument approaches down to as low as 200 ft. If you’re unsure whether your GNS is equipped with WAAS, just watch the initial splash screen during the start up. If a “W” is displayed after the model number, it is in fact a WAAS version.
They indicate that the GNS 430W will work with a software update available later this year.
I'm assuming the notice stated that the 430W currently will not meet the 2020 mandate but with the FREE software upgrade due out later this year will meet the requirement for the WAAS position source.
Thanks
Marc
Copied from Garmin's web site. http://www8.garmin.com/adsb/
How can I tell if I have an appropriate high-integrity WAAS position source?
Both the Garmin GNS 430W/530W and GTN series have the WAAS GPS technology capable of meeting the requirements of an ADS-B “Out” position source. These products will require a free software update expected to become available in the fourth quarter of 2012. Older, non-WAAS GNS 430/530 navigators can be upgraded to the WAAS version that has the technology. In addition to helping you reach ADS-B “Out” compliance, WAAS navigation offers additional benefits like being able to flying GPS-guided LPV glidepath instrument approaches down to as low as 200 ft. If you’re unsure whether your GNS is equipped with WAAS, just watch the initial splash screen during the start up. If a “W” is displayed after the model number, it is in fact a WAAS version.
They indicate that the GNS 430W will work with a software update available later this year.
I'm assuming the notice stated that the 430W currently will not meet the 2020 mandate but with the FREE software upgrade due out later this year will meet the requirement for the WAAS position source.
Thanks
Marc
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Marc,
Not sure what your main confusion is.
As we said above, "Eventually, Garmin will release software updates for the GNS and GTN products to make them compliant, but as of today they are not so you can't use them."
You can read the notice here:
http://www8.garmin.com/aviation/notices/1215.pdf
And that's all we know. There's no data as to why the GTN or GNS devices are not compliant, but as long as there is a service letter out saying they aren't, then we can't legally use one and claim compliance.
We also can't promise today that we'll be able to use the GTN or GNS devices in the future. Given that they are changing the firmware, they may make undocumented changes which make it impossible for a non-Garmin device to use them. We won't know until they publish the update and we can get our hands on it.
All of that worry is kind of a non-issue today though. Nobody needs a certified GPS in the USA until 2020, and there's a lot that can and will happen in 8 years. You'll get all the benefits of ADS-B with a non-certified GPS until 2020.
Not sure what your main confusion is.
As we said above, "Eventually, Garmin will release software updates for the GNS and GTN products to make them compliant, but as of today they are not so you can't use them."
You can read the notice here:
http://www8.garmin.com/aviation/notices/1215.pdf
And that's all we know. There's no data as to why the GTN or GNS devices are not compliant, but as long as there is a service letter out saying they aren't, then we can't legally use one and claim compliance.
We also can't promise today that we'll be able to use the GTN or GNS devices in the future. Given that they are changing the firmware, they may make undocumented changes which make it impossible for a non-Garmin device to use them. We won't know until they publish the update and we can get our hands on it.
All of that worry is kind of a non-issue today though. Nobody needs a certified GPS in the USA until 2020, and there's a lot that can and will happen in 8 years. You'll get all the benefits of ADS-B with a non-certified GPS until 2020.
jnmeade
Active Member
Was at a radio installation center this week that handles Garmin and Avidyne and the owner said that Garmin said that it would not promise that ARINC429 would always work with their devices. They reserved the prerogative of changing their output, I assume.
flybuddy
New Member
Curious if you can run two 978 receivers on one external antenna with a splitter?
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You could, but you will give up reception strength on both. A standard 1GHz splitter will work
N714b
RV-8A
Any issues with the ADSB antenna with distance from com antennas?
airguy
Active Member
Generally speaking, you don't want any transmitting antenna closer than about 2' to any receiving antenna, regardless of the frequencies. Practically speaking, the frequency difference here is so large that the 2' spacing should work fine and has been done countless times already with acceptable results. You will want more than that distance away from your transponder antenna though - I have 5' separation on my RV between the 1090Mhz transponder and 978Mhz ADSB, and 3' spacing to my comm antennae.
jeffa
New Member
Dynon Support,
Will the SV-ADSB-470 have the option for antenna diversity? From the description and pictures of the box, I'm guessing 'no'.
I noticed this is an option for the soon to be released Trig ADS-B unit, and was wondering if this has even been tested using this box or is it unnecessary?
Is your ADS-B unit also from Trig, like the SV-XPNDR-261/262?
Will the SV-ADSB-470 have the option for antenna diversity? From the description and pictures of the box, I'm guessing 'no'.
I noticed this is an option for the soon to be released Trig ADS-B unit, and was wondering if this has even been tested using this box or is it unnecessary?
Is your ADS-B unit also from Trig, like the SV-XPNDR-261/262?
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Our device does not have a diversity option. This is more useful in large aircraft where the aircraft is so big it can shadow the antenna.
The box is not a Trig device. They are focusing on 1090 receivers which are useful in Europe and Australia, but don't receive weather in the USA. They are air-air traffic only, while our box is air-air traffic, ground-air traffic, and ground-air weather.
The box is not a Trig device. They are focusing on 1090 receivers which are useful in Europe and Australia, but don't receive weather in the USA. They are air-air traffic only, while our box is air-air traffic, ground-air traffic, and ground-air weather.
jeffa
New Member
Awesome info....just curious. I waited for VP-X and it works flawlessly; so I will continue to wait for the ADS-B device and 4.0....
jnmeade
Active Member
Is your box a dual frequency receiver or only a 978Mhz receiver?
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978Mhz receiver. 1090ES targets and Mode C targets are relayed by the ADS-B ground stations.