Horizontal faceplate for HS34

[DougR]

All,

When I ordered my HS34 I asked for a horizontal faceplate. It is currently unavailable, I will have to mount mine horizontally anyway and I wondered how many people wanted a horizontal faceplate to stimulate our friends at Dynon to print one.

My HS34 will go right infront of the stick in my Rocket just below the panel so I can run it with either hand. Putting it nest to the D100 on the panel would require a whole new panel blank.

So if everyone who wants a horizontial faceplate would speak up, maybe they can gauge the demand and we can prod them to print it. ;-)

Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
F-1 Rocket

 

[dynonsupport]

Hi Doug,

No news on a horizontal version yet. But, as we've previously said, it won't be just a different faceplate since the whole box is a single extrusion. If you buy one of the ones we currently have available to order, it WILL NOT be convertible, since it's the unit itself that would need to be replaced. There are also buttons that have text on them; they would need to be manufactured into the unit in a different orientation as well.

To be perfectly clear - if you only want a horizontal version, do not order the current vertical HS34 unless you don't mind all the writing on its side.

 

[tecnam2003]

Just an observation......how about a reversible face plate.........vertical one side, horizontal on the reverse side........its a partial solution....

by the time you read this its already June 1st here in New Zealand and I cant wait for the latest updated software for my D10A....please post it today

thanks

Kevin

 

[dynonsupport]

As the post before you says- the front of the unit is not a plate. The whole box is an extrusion, so nothing can be reversed. On top of that, the buttons are labeled and backlit, so they can't be changed with a faceplate either.

 

[mcook]

You see, Doug is just a troublemaker.

That said, I would be interested in a horizontal unit. I would love to have the HS34 but would have to completely rework the main panel of my Sportsman 2+2 in order for it to fit. At this point, it's not worth the effort. But I could easily modify part of the panel to accommodate a horizontal box.

Just another data point...

--Marc

 

[AmphibFlyer]

I'd think that a stick-on thing would solve the problem.

 

[dynonsupport]

Are you OK with the nice, backlit, NAV SRC and BRG SRC buttons being sideways? A sticker can't fix those.

If we do the horizontal unit, we'll do it right, with buttons and silkscreen done right on the unit.

We're totally happy to hear from any of you that want it sideways- the more we get, the more likely we are to do it. From an engineering and quality perspective, this WILL be a different part number item. We just cannot make a unit that goes either way and have it look up to Dynon standards.

 

[GlassGuy]

I too struggled at length to try to find a way to fit the vertical orientation of the HS34 in my panel. After many attempts and iterations I finally gave up and figured that I would resort to making my own label to cover the silk-screened text on the face of the unit. As far as the labeling on buttons, I figured that I would just live with it sideways. It’s interesting to read other posters with this same problem, even though we have different aircraft. My sense is this that this orientation could be more desirable than originally thought and it’s not obvious until one tries to fit it in the panel.
 

 

[Canadian_JOY]

Dear Dynon Support,

A horizontal version of the HS34 is definitely required - I have NO vertically-oriented mounting space available in my panel.

Just as an aside, there are several options available to make the horizontal/vertical changeover very easy. Most intercoms allow for either horizontal or vertical orientation through the use of a reversible faceplate. This, when done correctly, looks just fine and makes for a professional-looking installation.

With respect to the lighted switch buttons, there have been pushbuttons available for YEARS that feature removable bezels and replaceable legends. If you don't believe me, look at the Eurocopters AS350 (formerly Aerospatiale). All the power controls on this aircraft are backlit pushbuttons, with removable legends, and these legends could be rotated in any orientation the user wishes. That aircraft was certified 25-30 years ago. Surely Dynon can't be that far behind the times.

While using an extrusion makes for a nice EMI enclosure the failure to consider the need for horizontal mounting shows lack of foresight on the part of the design team. It might be better, since you're likely to come out with other "expansion modules" in the future, to keep in mind that in the homebuilder market we're pushing the envelope in many ways, and panel space is often at a premium as a result. Make the boxes as flexible as possible. Since darned near NONE of these things have hit the street yet NOW is the time to make the design changes necessary to make this product more useable (and to keep down Dynon's inventory costs driven by having to make/stock both vertical and horizontal part numbers).

Sorry if this sounds like sour grapes, but the decision to make a box that's inflexible in its mounting orientation has been proven by your customers to be unwise. It's time to admit the original design decisions were wrong, and go back to the drawing board to implement this lesson that's been learned. I've been there, done that, with MUCH more expensive equipment - the resulting re-designed equipment may be found on about 95% of all widebodies shipped by both Boeing and Airbus. Without the redesign that percentage would have been zero. Sometimes you just need to take your lumps and move on...

 

[flyer2377]

I would also like to request the horizantal version of the HS34 the vertical will not fit the Lancair panel....

 

[meljordan]

Dear Canadian Joy,

Having seen the HS34 in person, I can tell you that it is a really high quality unit, not a piece of cheap stamped sheet metal like the intercoms you compare it to. Also, the lighted buttons are very well made and not some cheap plastic pushbutton, but rather a multilayer rubber moldings. Rather than being behind the times, I feel Dynon is leading the pack and using the most up-to-date and highest quality approach available. It was clearly designed as a companion unit to their D100, D120, D180 line of products, and looks fantastic mounted along side any of those units. This current layout is not "wrong" it is optimized for the vast majority of their customers and was carefully designed to mount vertically in a very limited space. There is nothing like it on the market, and certainly nothing else that has these functions in the extremely small footprint it occupies.

Also, lets keep in mind that Dynon is not manufacturing products for Airbus or Eurocopters, so all the rest of us can actually afford to put them in our planes. Careful cost control, while giving the maximum quality product possible has made the Dynon products the absolute best reasonably priced (under about $50K) on the market.

So rather than criticize their engineering ability or "foresight", why not take hard look at your panel and make some "hard" decisions yourself. Being on the third instrument panel in my RV, I can tell you that I will probably be making a 4th or a 5th sometime. The reality is, the electronics market is moving at a fantastic rate, and a panel 4 years old is often obsolete. Just because a product does not happen to fit exactly where you want it in your panel does not make the product "unwise". I certainly feel you have every right to provide Dynon with feedback and to request products that you would like them to consider, but given all the excellent technology that Dynon has provided this limited market, I think your negative comments are out of line. I also believe that Dynon does listen to it's customers very carefully, and I am sure that the requests for a horizontal unit are being carefully considered.

Mel Jordan
Tucson

 

[Canadian_JOY]

Mel - thanks for your feedback. Like all opinions, it's uniquely yours. I don't share it, but who cares?

Bottom line is that Dynon has designed a "glue box" like the HS34 without giving due consideration to the fact that it's coming to market many many months after the unit to which it interfaces. This means the HS34 is destined to be a retrofit item in many cockpits. Retrofits are easier when the unit is flexible in the way it's mounted. Dynon simply missed the mark in taking this into consideration. Every good design house makes a goof now and then...

As for cost control, there's no cost benefit to having unique horizontal and vertical mounting designs. In fact, doing so only serves to increase cost. That's why the HS34 design simply doesn't make sense. (Oh, by the way, speaking of cost control, the unit which I referenced in my original note started out at a price in excess of $100K, but through REAL cost control came down to a sell price below $50K, so I have more than a little real-life experience in this domain.)

You've mentioned that I should look at my panel and make some hard decisions. Well, thanks, but I'll pass. My panel is brand new, as in zero flight hours (should have been in the air last week but we've had nothing but solid clag overhead... ). I'm not about to go making another one because a manufacturer didn't think ahead. If you wish to do that then go ahead, fill your boots. Personally, I like to fly more than I like to work on instrument panels. Trust me when I say this, as I'm a licensed AME and have spent a good portion of my working life as an avionics tech and manufacturers tech rep - working on avionics is fun, but watching the avionics do their job in the air is far, far more fun! The Dynon display certainly adds to this fun factor.

 

[meljordan]

Canadian JOY (do you actually have a name?)

I certainly understand your desire to have a product that exactly fits your needs, and one that is available exactly when you want it. My point about the instrument panel was that with the ever changing nature of electronics, the odds seem pretty well stacked against you. I certainly expect that Dynon will continue developing and introducing new products, and look forward to integrating them into my panel and systems, even if it does mean a panel re-layout. By the way, I have 850 hours on my RV in the past 4.5 years, so I too enjoy flying and have found time to do so, even with my various panel revisions.

Your inputs and desire for a different version of a product are understandable and quite reasonable, but the tone of your message that makes it sound like Dynon has somehow made a big mistake because it didn't easily meet your needs rubbed me the wrong way.

I too know about cost benefits and target markets. I was the Director of a division of an electronics manufacturing firm making data collection terminals as well as the director of marketing of a semiconductor company. I do understand cost controls, manufacturing and inventory issues. Comparing products with selling prices in the 50K to 100K range with a product that sells for $650 seems a pretty far stretch. I know what it takes to deliver a very high quality product in a very limited market and keep the price down to these levels. And one thing is sure, there are going to be customers that have needs you can not directly address. If I were to venture a guess based on reading these forums, that the HS34 in it's current configuration will address the lion's share of the market, that most others will find a way to make it work, and a very limited number will hold out until they offered a different version. I applaud Dynon's efforts to give us functionality unavailable anywhere else, and at these prices. It seems to me that these guys get it right, and I respect their decisions and products. However, as you said, these are my unique opinions.


Sorry about your not being able to get in that first flight. I can only imagine how frustrating that must be. When I first flew my RV it was a simply wonderful day. I can also understand your not wanting to tear into a new panel when the paint isn't even dry on the first. I remember when I finally bit the bullet and built my second panel, I made the decision then to make a panel that would be very easy to modify and change as new and exciting avionics became available. I guess I am a bit of an electronics junky and like to alway have the latest toys in my panel. I now have a panel that I can easily modify and add new "boxes" as they become available. Anyway, I hope your first flight is a wonderful experience, one that you will cherish for years to come, and I hope you will have many many hours of fun in your new creation. One thing we can agree on, watching avionics in the air is the final reward and one of life's true pleasures.

Best Regards,
Mel Jordan
Tucson

 

[khorton]

Dynon is losing more than just HS34 sales by not having a sufficiently flexible unit.  They are also losing D10A sales.  I have a D10A that provides my attitude indicator and DG.  My CDI is directly below the D10A.  I was planning to purchase a second D-10A as soon as I could make it talk to my GNS430, with the second D10A working full time in HSI format.  But, there is simply no way to jam another large piece of hardware into my instrument panel - I need a much less capable interface box that would be remotely mounted, with no panel interface.  

So, I'll have to forget about buying a second D10A and HS34 for now.  Someday I'll bite the bullet and rework my panel and replace the CDI with an EHSI.  But not now, as I am in the final push to get flying.

I fully recognize that Dynon has to make business decisions, and they can't have a product for every market niche while keeping costs down.  But I think the market niches they are not covering are larger than they suspect.

 

[dynonsupport]

Kevin,
Are you saying you want to use the buttons on the D10A to do heading/course adjustments instead of the knob? We're probably never going to make a HS34 that has no knobs, but there's no reason you can't hide it behind the panel and then use the buttons on the EFIS to control it.

The software isn't designed to do this today, but it's a semi-easy change. Are there other customers out there that would buy an HS34 for the ARINC and other interface capabilities but want to use just the EFIS buttons?

 

[Werner_Schneider]

The ARINC interface is a very interesting option which will bring many other NAV equipment to work together with the Dynon Units. For many applications the interface / voice capabilities of the HS would be the only thing needed. Yes, that would be of interest for me too, no controls needed, remote mounted.

Werner

 

[khorton]

Kevin,
Are you saying you want to use the buttons on the D10A to do heading/course adjustments instead of the knob? We're probably never going to make a HS34 that has no knobs, but there's no reason you can't hide it behind the panel and then use the buttons on the EFIS to control it.

The software isn't designed to do this today, but it's a semi-easy change. Are there other customers out there that would buy an HS34 for the ARINC and other interface capabilities but want to use just the EFIS buttons?

Yes, I would find a place to remotely mount the HS34 so I could add an EHSI that talks to a GNS430.  Later on, when I was prepared to rework my panel, I would move the HS34 to the panel.  So, if you revise your software to allow this to work, I would be interested.  

One option that I am looking at is mounting the HS34 down low in my cockpit on a flat panel ahead of the seat on the right.  That would give me access to it, but not in a convenient place.  I would hope to be able to use either the knobs, or the buttons.  Maybe the software could allow both the knobs and the panel buttons to be active for these functions.

 

[PilotKris]

This post again brings up points that I mentioned on another thread.

Many existing users would love to have the features of the HS34 but simply do not have the panel space to accommodate the limited mounting options it offers.

I'll again request what I believe would be big seller for Dynon and show support to the "Early Adopters" of their products, a way to remotely mount the HS34's rotary encoders (knobs) and possibly the switches. Virtually any installation would allow for an extra 2-3 knobs and a couple of push buttons if they could be mounted individually. I'd be more than happy to pay extra for that flexibility.

The HS34 is a great step forward and beautifully produced but it's only practical for new installations. From what I read on the forums, most existing users are passing because of the extensive re-design/re-engineering necessary because of the limited mounting options.

 

[dynonsupport]

show support to the "Early Adopters" of their products

We don't have any early adopters anymore, and we haven't since 2004 when we went from the D10 to the D10A. When we did that we allowed every single customer to upgrade their unit for a minimal cost. That's support.

The D10A hardware is the basis of every EFIS we sell today, and we've sold thousands of them over the last 3+ years without leaving a single one of those customers behind. Every customer that has purchased any one of our EFIS units has gotten every feature they were promised when they purchased it, and almost every customer out there has gotten tons more via free firmware updates. Beyond that, everything we're releasing today still works with the first D10A we sold in 2004, including the HS34. Just because it doesn't fit in some people's panels doesn't mean we aren't supporting them anymore.

We show an incredible amount of support for every single owner of our products, no matter what date they bought it on. We're sorry if you feel otherwise. As the owner of a D180, you bought a very mature product that does exactly what we told you it would do.

 

[PilotKris]

We don't have any early adopters anymore... we've sold thousands of them over the last 3+ years without leaving a single one of those customers behind

By "Early Adopters" is was referring to the "thousands" of previous customers not just the 1st D10 buyers.

There have been MANY requests for more flexible ways to mount the HS34 on these forums. These are customers who are wanting to purchase more product from you.

I (as I am sure many other CUSTOMERS) are not feeling very good about the off hand way their concerns and suggestions are being dismissed.

We offer suggestions as how our needs can be met yet all we seam to get from Dynon are brags about how great they and their products are and no acknowledgement of our concerns.

Shouting to the world how great you are is little comfort to those of us who are feeling left behind. The HS34 is a great step forward but YOU ARE LEAVING MANY CUSTOMERS BEHIND because of the limitations of the design.