SkyView 12.0 Now Available

[DonFromTX]

Louis,
You can put the AP panel behind your panel and use it for auto trim. So you do have options even in a space limited panel.

Now that gets my attention, I have no more room in my panel. Do you mean you don't have to click switches or twiddle with it at all, and can mount it in a blind location?

 

[dynonsupport]

Don:

All of the buttons on the front of the SV-AP-PANEL duplicate functionality already present in the SkyView EXPERT AP mode. The dedicated buttons on the front of the SV-AP-PANEL just make EXPERT AP mode more convenient to use vs the nested menus on the SkyView AP.

Thus if you just want the Autopilot Auto-trim functionality and you don't want / don't need the dedicated EXPERT AP mode buttons on the front of the SV-AP-PANEL, you CAN tuck the SV-AP-PANEL behind the panel. Just connect at least one of the SkyView Network ports, and wire power, trim control switches, and trim control motor(s) via the 15-pin connector. Then set up the Autopilot Auto-trim on the SkyView display.

Now that gets my attention, I have no more room in my panel.  Do you mean you don't have to click switches or twiddle with it at all, and can mount it in a blind location?

 

[swatson999]

Don:

All of the buttons on the front of the SV-AP-PANEL duplicate functionality already present in the SkyView EXPERT AP mode. The dedicated buttons on the front of the SV-AP-PANEL just make EXPERT AP mode more convenient to use vs the nested menus on the SkyView AP.

Thus if you just want the Autopilot Auto-trim functionality and you don't want / don't need the dedicated EXPERT AP mode buttons on the front of the SV-AP-PANEL, you CAN tuck the SV-AP-PANEL behind the panel. Just connect at least one of the SkyView Network ports, and wire power, trim control switches, and trim control motor(s) via the 15-pin connector. Then set up the Autopilot Auto-trim on the SkyView display.

That seems kinda kludgy, having an actual panel with buttons and such "hidden" somewhere. And expensive. Vern's box is 1/3 the cost. If all the AP panel does is replicate button presses and such, then we're paying for a lot of hardware we don't need just to get autotrim.

Anyone have any experience with the MakerPlane box? I'm coming up on annual CI, so might be a good time to install it...

 

[preid]

I have a Vp-200, let me tell you you want automation?, this is it!, having autotrim would really make me feel like a airline pilot. With all the automation I have I actually like seeing the trim annunciator telling me to adjust the plane to keep it trimmed. I really like how the roll trim will start telling me the same in the new version. Personally, I don't think the need to adjust the trim a couple of times each time there is a change (hmm lets see 3 maybe 4 times) is a reason to invest in any box. I think its a great feature overall, and for someone who has the full capability of their sv_panel, but not worth adding another level of failure for.
With that said, Excellent job Dynon with the OBS mode- THAT is a feature I will be so grateful to finally be able to use in my future flights and glad it can be done without a need for extra hardware.
Looking forward to upgrading and reaping the additional benefits of v12.

 

[NASA515]

Autopilot Auto-Trim

The SkyView Autopilot can now automatically keep the the aircraft in trim while under autopilot control, eliminating the need for the pilot to manually actuate their trim to satisfy the Autopilot’s built-in trim advice. This feature requires that the aircraft has an SV-AP-PANEL and is using its integrated trim controller for electric trim servo actuation. Auto-Trim can be configured on pitch and/or roll axes.

This is disappointing...as stated quite a while back, I designed a panel which didn't need "extra" boxes like AP Panels because everything was *supposed* to be accessible via the menus and buttons and knobs on the SV1000.  That said, I understand if there's an electronics reason for requiring the AP Panel to get this feature.

I just hope this isn't the start of "to get THIS cool new feature, you have to buy this OTHER interface and install it on your instrument panel..." in the future.

You guys did a very good job of making all of the "advanced" AP features accessible from the menus and thus making the AP Panel an option for those who like them.  Kind of a shame this one isn't; please don't let this open a can of worms.

Not disappointing to me, Steve.  I think it's the Cat's Meow.

First, the variable speed controller in the Dynon A/P module solves a significant problem with the old fixed controller on the RV-12.  That was a big problem - too slow in the pattern, too slow during T&G's, waaay too fast in cruise.  No happy setting.

Beyond that, the A/P panels are fantastic and have completely changed my way of flying - even when not using the Autopilot.  Setting altitudes, headings, baro settings without having to dive into those menus is a blessing from heaven.  I now fly this airplane like the big airplanes I've become used to over the past 30-40 years.

If you can scrunch out the panel space, I think it's money VERY WELL spent.  I cringe at the notion of hiding the modules behind your panel just to access the trim controller.

And now, the Autotrim - hopefully to solve one of my last remaining gripes (constant Trim up/Trim Down Commands.)  I plan to install it ASAP - can't wait to try it out!

I'm no Fan Boy for any thing or any company, but Dynon is making it hard for me to not become one for the Skyview system.

Bob Bogash
RV-12
N737G

 

[dynonsupport]

That seems kinda kludgy, having an actual panel with buttons and such "hidden" somewhere.  And expensive.  Vern's box is 1/3 the cost.  If all the AP panel does is replicate button presses and such, then we're paying for a lot of hardware we don't need just to get autotrim.

Steve,
The trim controller in the AP panel replaces the trim controller you have in your plane, and it's a really advanced controller. It can do speed scheduling to slow down your trim as the plane goes faster, can de-conflict pilot and co-pilot inputs, and has a bunch of safety features not present in relay decks or other dumb controllers.

The integration with the AP panel also means SkyView knows it's trimming, so we can show you the trim in motion on the SkyView screen, block trim suggestions while it's trimming, and we have built in tests to help you configure the system and verify the operation. Finally, it's all configured via the SkyView UI.

While Vern's product is likely a good one, as one not designed and supported by Dynon and fully integrated into the SkyView system, SkyView will not be able to do as much integration with it.

 

[dynonsupport]

Any chance we are going to get the ability to control the Dynon VHF radio completely through the Skyview like the transponder? I do not wish to add the radio panel to my instrument panel. No room and do not care for the look. I could easily live without some of the features the radio panel provides such as frequency identification ie "Ground" if I could see and change the frequency. Having the ability to have a standby freq would complete it.

We do not support a fully remote radio. A radio needs frequency knobs and volume knobs, and we don't really think it's the right UI to dig through menus to use a radio. Additionally, the control panel means that you have a backup for your radio control if SkyView goes completely dark.

I'm sure there are some corner cases where a remote radio would be appropriate, but right now Dynon doesn't have plans to serve that market.

 

[lgabriel]

The trim controller in the AP panel replaces the trim controller you have in your plane, and it's a really advanced controller. It can do speed scheduling to slow down your trim as the plane goes faster, can de-conflict pilot and co-pilot inputs, and has a bunch of safety features not present in relay decks or other dumb controllers.

The integration with the AP panel also means SkyView knows it's trimming, so we can show you the trim in motion on the SkyView screen, block trim suggestions while it's trimming, and we have built in tests to help you configure the system and verify the operation.  Finally, it's all configured via the SkyView UI.

While Vern's product is likely a good one, as one not designed and supported by Dynon and fully integrated into the SkyView system, SkyView will not be able to do as much integration with it.

Speed scheduling, deconfliction, safety features, tight integration with SV, configuration via the SV UI, and support from Dynon are all qualities the VP-X has, too.

One of the reasons I chose the SV/VP-X combination was the hope that tighter integration between the electrical system and the EFIS would lead to a more automated airplane, so although physically installing an AP panel would add auto trim to my aircraft, it kind of philosophically defeats the purpose. Sadly, there hasn't been much of a push in the SV/VP-X integration direction...I think adding auto trim to that interface would be a quantum leap in the right direction.

Also, a software update is much lighter and easier to install!

 

[DBRV10]

Folks, if you want the VPX to manage your trim keep it. If you want the Skyview AP to manage it, don't you think it is really worth the few bucks for the separate AP controller and integrated trim.

The Knob and button units are the best thing you can add to your panel, and it is not hard to move the trim over to the Button panel.

Jake, the VPX is great, but I can say in future you will be better served going the way I did back in March 2014……this is better execution overall.

 

[preid]

David, knowing your vast knowledge, I assume you did something very effective, this may not apply to your electrical solution but I have no idea why anyone would use fuses when there is solid state systems out there. Vertical Power has a fantastic system that does far more for safety, IMO than the technology of Lindbergh many still seem to be installing today. Fortunately, I have the VP-200 which adds all the features to trim (except auto trim), has a autoboost when fuel pressure is low and three levels of redundancy. I have no idea what the VP-X does, but I'm with Jake on this one. I would use it exclusively for all new installs as well.

I support Dynon moving forward taking advantage of the hardware it has added. If I had invested in the SV_Panel I would be stoked that I had the extra features. I would literally feel I was getting a better value for my investment. To Louis's point, there are those who bought the VP-X license and are not getting a better value for their money, that is the root of the issue here.

 

[swatson999]

That seems kinda kludgy, having an actual panel with buttons and such "hidden" somewhere.  And expensive.  Vern's box is 1/3 the cost.  If all the AP panel does is replicate button presses and such, then we're paying for a lot of hardware we don't need just to get autotrim.

Steve,
The trim controller in the AP panel replaces the trim controller you have in your plane, and it's a really advanced controller. It can do speed scheduling to slow down your trim as the plane goes faster, can de-conflict pilot and co-pilot inputs, and has a bunch of safety features not present in relay decks or other dumb controllers.

The integration with the AP panel also means SkyView knows it's trimming, so we can show you the trim in motion on the SkyView screen, block trim suggestions while it's trimming, and we have built in tests to help you configure the system and verify the operation.  Finally, it's all configured via the SkyView UI.

Thanks...that all sounds very nice, and make no mistake, I *love* my Skyview system and sing its praises to anybody who checks out my airplane. For now, though, I'll just have to stick with manually adjusting the trim. It's not that big a deal, and I am loath to cut another panel or cut another hole in this one

But, to be clear, the Skyview system is absolutely outstanding, and I love flying with it. I couldn't be happier with the choice I made...traffic weather, synthetic vision, cheap map data, free aviation data, full engine monitoring, the list goes on and on and on. Keep up the good work!

I can't wait for the touchscreen upgrade and the video input!

Steve

 

[aerofurb]

Excellent - a moveable MAP knob!

Thanks, Dynon!

 

[DBRV10]

David, knowing your vast knowledge, I assume you did something very effective, this may not apply to your electrical solution but I have no idea why anyone would use fuses when there is solid state systems out there. Vertical Power has a fantastic system that does far more for safety, IMO than the technology of Lindbergh many still seem to be installing today. Fortunately, I have the VP-200 which adds all the features to trim (except auto trim), has a autoboost when fuel pressure is low and three levels of redundancy. I have no idea what the VP-X does, but I'm with Jake on this one. I would use it exclusively for all new installs as well.

I support Dynon moving forward taking advantage of the hardware it has added. If I had invested in the SV_Panel I would be stoked that I had the extra features. I would literally feel I was getting a better value for my investment. To Louis's point, there are those who bought the VP-X license and are not getting a better value for their money, that is the root of the issue here.

Not sure about vast knowledge…….in fact I find increasinginglt I want more

But just to be sure you appreciate where I am coming from, I recently (March-May 2014) went to a three screen SV with he new Knob and Button panel. I also went from CBs to a VPX pro. As you say fuses went out. I still have a couple that the VPX can't handle of course.

The trim control feature via the Dynon system is by far better than using the VPX trim control. So why use the VPX when there is a better option available now? I even feed the analogue direct to SV-EMS not via the VPX.

There is an RV10 owner down here with a very disjointed system, VPX, Skyview, GTN and a TRIO AP. The trim via the VPX kept giving him all sorts of strange erratic problems. I am not sure why those problems existed, but when fed direct to the SV-EMS all the problems went away.

I love the VPX and I am helping a friend with an RV8 now that has one as well. But the trim and AP etc are all using the strengths of the Dynon system.

If you have classic Dynon gear or other older hardware, sure the VPX options may be the best you have, so use them. But if you have a SV system, the addition of the AP button panel will be an awesome upgrade, and even more so with the AP functions.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[jakej]

David said -
"There is an RV10 owner down here with a very disjointed system, VPX, Skyview, GTN and a TRIO AP. The trim via the VPX kept giving him all sorts of strange erratic problems. I am not sure why those problems existed, but when fed direct to the SV-EMS all the problems went away."

What is so disjointed here ?  A lot of people have VP-X, Skyview, Tso'd Gps & a/pilot, some just want to have a totally independent  a/pilot system for IFR redundancy.  I & many others choose to do it that way , and, it's not unreasonable or unsafe in any way to do so.
For the above reasons complete integration is not what every  wants 

Ps - you don't know the full story of that RV10 so the inference is out of line.

Jake J

 

[DBRV10]

Jake there was no out of line inference at all.

I said and I repeat…… I am not sure why those problems existed, but when fed direct to the SV-EMS all the problems went away."

That is exactly how it is. no dispute.

The industry I am in, is industrial automation, and I am 100% sure an analogue input direct into the system is better than via remote IO and a serial link. Exception would be an 8 bit analogue Vs a 16 bit over EthaCat or similar.

This is my preference. And I believe it will deliver a better result with no less redundancy or safety implication. The VPX ability to process digital or analogue IO and send it to a screen is really useful when your back is against the wall with IO shortages. But for those with this scenario it is a great feature.

YMMV.

 

[jakej]

Ok, point taken.   We, many of us, do things in different ways for different reasons & that's the way it is.  With aircraft systems there is getting to be much less of analogue & much more serial data streaming.  My back is protected (hopefully I don't need it ) by systems/electrical backups.   

We should discuss this more when I see you at the APS course in March 

Jake J

Jake J

 

[Carl_Froehlich]

I would like to offer an observation on Vertical Power product. I agree that if one wishes to improve on typical spam can power distribution, and has deep pockets, the Vertical Power product is attractive. I offer however that while it advertises simplicity once you start to work around how you would do back up power distribution the simplicity aspect is lost.

A single box wired to a single battery, I offer, has many single failure modes that I would find unacceptable in my airplane. There are approaches to achieve redundancy that are not complicated.

Now donning the Nomex suit as I suspect many will disagree.

 

[rfinch]

I would like to offer an observation on Vertical Power product.  I agree that if one wishes to improve on typical spam can power distribution, and has deep pockets, the Vertical Power product is attractive.  I offer however that while it advertises simplicity once you start to work around how you would do back up power distribution the simplicity aspect is lost.

A single box wired to a single battery, I offer, has many single failure modes that I would find unacceptable in my airplane.  There are approaches to achieve redundancy that are not complicated.

No flames from me. I'm not a fan of the VP-X product, which doesn't eliminate panel switches and I'm not sure offers a secondary, essential buss. I have installed the VP-200 however, which offers a lot more, including automatic switching to the essential buss in case of primary alternator failure (turns the field on the standby alternator, drops unnecessary loads).

If either the VP-X or VP-200 fail, your Dynon Skyview will continue to be powered by the Dynon battery backup (you did install one, yes?). And electronic ignition is fused and switched separately than the VP devices.

 

[preid]

In some cases it is better to keep things simple. No flames from me either, as I was battling the deep pockets issue as well. In the end I didn't spend much more for the state of the art VP-200, safety wise there is absolutely no comparison; a screen turning red telling me the flap circuit breaker popped on final and the ability to simply reset it with a push of a button versus theneed to go feeling for a popped breaker and pushing it in, that is, Once I figure out that the flap isn't working, I mentioned earlier the Autoboost function when fuel pressure gets below a certain psi, there is the automation piece etc. I admit I passed on more expensive panels and went with the skyviews due to my lack of deep pockets. In the end, deep pockets is not the issue here but what if I do lose the power to the vp, which by the way does have 4 zones separate from each other and does have 4 options for backup.
Nothing wrong with fuses, but when there is a solid state option out there and no one, not one person I have heard of, has had an issue with it yet, I think I made the right choice.
.

 

[GlennB]

At the risk of going off topic, I have to speak in defence of the VP-X approach.

It didn't take deep pockets, and it eliminated a lot of other complexity such as traditional circuit breakers and the wiring to and from.  The list of features gained is too long to mention here.  That includes, if we'd wanted it, the redundancy of a second alternator and an essential bus.

I have to confess, in the day job I'm pretty used to having the electrics controlled by magic boxes instead of good ol' circuit breakers and switches.  Properly set up, it delivers features and reliability way beyond the simple hardware approach.

But the greatest attraction of the VP-X is its integration with Skyview.  Dynon and VP have done a brilliant job of getting the two communicating as well as they do.  That's why I was a little disappointed that, in the latest update, autotrim wasn't deemed important enough to add to the mix.  (Still as impressed as ever with the rest of it, thanks!)

I agree that the ideal solution would be the separate autopilot controller, which would enble that missing feature.  But in our case it wasn't available at build time, so it would mean cutting another hole in the panel and splicing a bunch of wires into a system that's already working well.  That, and another $A795 to buy the controller.  Additionally we would not benefit from its features such as speed scheduling and runaway protection, because the VP-X already does those.

So I will wait patiently in the hope that there's a software solution to cater for those of us unwilling or unable to go the hardware route, and in the meantime continue to endure the crushing workload of trimming manually