Certified C172L install

Dr.M

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Jul 25, 2019
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15
status of panel ... to-date... C172L certified install...lots of work between top and bottom pix (attached)
 

Dr.M

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Jul 25, 2019
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looks like pix didn't attach ... here they are
 

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WmInce

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Jul 10, 2019
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66
I really like that.
Nothing fancy . . . just good, solid equipment . . . simple, practical and straightforward.
I love Skyview . . . for almost 5 years now.
For you . . Dynon newcomers, support is nothing short of awesome!
 

Dr.M

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Jul 25, 2019
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Awesome! Do you plan for another screen on the right in the future?
Thanx...No, I don't think I need the extra screen (the big screen+GTN650 is prob enough)...however, the is absolutely nothing behind the right panel...so future insertion of 7" would be easy.
 

Dr.M

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Jul 25, 2019
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Here is an early startup pix. The equivalent of episode 1 of "Panel Savers" :)
 

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Dr.M

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Jul 25, 2019
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Panel Savers episode 2 - Beware: for earlier C172 versions (S/N 17265684 and older) the Dynon tray (which is good idea) won't fit because the yoke is about an inch higher in these models. The sub panel needs to cut just to get the display to fit. The tray shown in the pix, although it looks like it fits. does not because of interfering with the yoke track. Other installation solutions are required for these models. Will show mine in later episodes.
 

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Steveden

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Jul 10, 2019
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Location
Carnation, WA
status of panel ... to-date... C172L certified install...lots of work between top and bottom pix (attached)
Dr M.
I’m going to do the same thing with a 182P. I was wondering where you got your blank instrument panel or did someone build those for you? I’d like to find just the blanks for the 182P, but not sure we’re to look.
 

Dr.M

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Jul 25, 2019
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Steveden,
I used .090 alum sheet (many sources including Spruce) and cut my own. This is a very thick material and is the same as original material. The good news is that there are very few holes to cut and they are (mostly) square so a scroll saw is what I used. I kept the 3-panel Cessna scheme as shown in this pix. That allows most flexibility and ease of integration. Instead of powder-coating the panels (which is quite popular), I covered mine with hair cell finish ABS which is super durable and is consistent with other interior plastic parts for a more seamless look-and-feel.
 

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Steveden

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Jul 10, 2019
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Location
Carnation, WA
Steveden,
I used .090 alum sheet (many sources including Spruce) and cut my own. This is a very thick material and is the same as original material. The good news is that there are very few holes to cut and they are (mostly) square so a scroll saw is what I used. I kept the 3-panel Cessna scheme as shown in this pix. That allows most flexibility and ease of integration. Instead of powder-coating the panels (which is quite popular), I covered mine with hair cell finish ABS which is super durable and is consistent with other interior plastic parts for a more seamless look-and-feel.
Dr. M
Thx for the info and pics, very nice job!
 

DarrenF

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Aug 7, 2019
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1
status of panel ... to-date... C172L certified install...lots of work between top and bottom pix (attached)
Dr. M, are you an A&P/AI or are you having someone sign off on this. After getting some estimates from some supposedly soon to be Dynon certified shops, what i have found is that they are pricing this comparibly to a Garmin install, like $60k, instead of around $25k that seems reasonable. If you can have an AI sign off on your work I might pursue that avenue myself, but I don't know if that is legal yet. Any help is appreciated.

-Darren
 

Dr.M

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Jul 25, 2019
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Darren,
I am using an AI to sign off. Dynon is amenable to that process at this time because they have yet to fully grow their installer network. I have significant personal experience and have installed similar systems before in previous refurbs and building a homebuilt with a glass panel. The difficulties that installers see as risks are probably (1) gutting the old panel and systems, (2) fabricating a new panel, (3) autopilot servos installation (see in process pix below), (4) vacuum system removal, (5) engine sensors installation (see in process pix below), (6) configuration of the Dynon system, and (7) integration with avionics. The Dynon system gives you the opportunity to completely modernize your flight/avionics, remove/rewire old avionics wiring, and get rid of old, cranky autopilots. But all of that requires plenty of tedious work and planning. The good news is that once everything behind the panel is gutted, reinstallation of Dynon network-based components is very straight forward and there is plenty of room to work. Dynon's installation manual has gone through about 3 revisions since I began and they have a few more installation components .. all of which should help for future installers. I have essentially completed the installation and think that $60k is pricey (heck, I'll do it for that). I think an experienced shop could do the Dynon install in about a man-month. A shop who has done the Dynon install before should easily make that estimate. Good luck...let me know how things work out...what model of aircraft are you installing in?
 

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greentips

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Nov 26, 2020
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20
Darren,
I am using an AI to sign off. Dynon is amenable to that process at this time because they have yet to fully grow their installer network. I have significant personal experience and have installed similar systems before in previous refurbs and building a homebuilt with a glass panel. The difficulties that installers see as risks are probably (1) gutting the old panel and systems, (2) fabricating a new panel, (3) autopilot servos installation (see in process pix below), (4) vacuum system removal, (5) engine sensors installation (see in process pix below), (6) configuration of the Dynon system, and (7) integration with avionics. The Dynon system gives you the opportunity to completely modernize your flight/avionics, remove/rewire old avionics wiring, and get rid of old, cranky autopilots. But all of that requires plenty of tedious work and planning. The good news is that once everything behind the panel is gutted, reinstallation of Dynon network-based components is very straight forward and there is plenty of room to work. Dynon's installation manual has gone through about 3 revisions since I began and they have a few more installation components .. all of which should help for future installers. I have essentially completed the installation and think that $60k is pricey (heck, I'll do it for that). I think an experienced shop could do the Dynon install in about a man-month. A shop who has done the Dynon install before should easily make that estimate. Good luck...let me know how things work out...what model of aircraft are you installing in?
Dr.M: I am proceeding along your path. First thanks for the solid information here. I was wondering if you have any thoughts or insights on the Cessna C182 panel. My airplane is a bit unique in that Cessna used it for several years as a test airplane originating as a K model before finally passing on to the world as an M model, with all the factory options of the day. I have purchased the Dynon system with my IA doing the supervising work. I'll check the yoke runout to see how that looks, thanks for that advice. Thanks also for answering the debate on 0.080 v. 0.090 6061 material.

I too have removed probably 30-50 pounds of old wire left behind as avionics were upgraded between 1972 and 1990 when I bought the airplane. While tedious, I found it relaxing and I just couldn't help myself picking and unwinding those bits of history. I'm sure once I get ready to install the panel there will be more wire cleanup to do. Once I get started, I'll take and share the pics.

Now for the question: The present Cessna panel is the three piece panel, with the radio stack centered at the midline of the panel. At some point Cessna in later models (of 172 and I think 182) moved the radio stack from the midline to the right so that the right edge of the radios are at the midline. This gives room for the Dynon in my configuration giving me room to keep my WX900, KX155/KI209 backup and the Terra-100 ADF if I want and provides a very clean panel with space for the AP control when it finally reaches 182-space.

Do you have any thoughts on whether it is a good idea to move the radio stack 3.12" right to make more space for the 10" on the pilot side and use the 7" on the copilot side? Or keep it where its at on the midline. The radio attach rails are pretty well swiss cheesed from the mods over the years before I got the plane, so I would probably replace those in either case while I have the thing apart. The King cannot drive the Dynon, at least not directly as far as I know so I'll need to keep and place the indicator. I like redundancy.
 

Dr.M

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Jul 25, 2019
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15
Sounds like you're making good progress. I agree that it does feel good to clean out the rat's nest of wires behind the panel (along with all of the vacuum stuff). I suggest you keep the C182 service manual handy and update your schematics (in the rear of the manual) as you go. You will need to put updated schematics in your plane's reference documents.

Regarding your panel strategy, here are some thoughts (without seeing pix of your panel). I suspect you have plenty of room on the pilot side of the panel for the 10" display, D10, and control panels. I find the 10" display to be more than adequate to fly by. I have always thought the extra 7" display to be a bit overkill...but that's your call. I would be reluctant to move radios and the rails. I believe the rails are part of the sub panel and the sub panel really provides the primary strength of that section of the fuselage. The instrument panel (that you will build) just bolts to the sub panel. So, if possible, I recommend you try to rebuild the rails in their current position with keeping the strength of subpage in mind.

Finally, my personal preference is to simplify the panel to reduce my pilot workload. So, I think a great GPS navigator (GTN 650, Avidyne IFD, etc) provides all the nav/com we need. The Dynon ADSB receiver/transponder provides traffic and weather. And a lightweight, modern Comm (Dynons or the new Garmin) finishes the essentials. I suggest your ADF be sent to the Smithsonian and the WX900 provides only marginal improvement over ADSB (and hardly any over Sirius). The Kx155, although a great radio, cannot be integrated on the nav side well into the Dynon system and its a bit heavy for just a second comm. But if you like the backup strategy of a standalone ILS Nav solution, it does that.

All of the above are just my opinion and what's good about doing the work yourself (with IA supervision), is that your panel will reflect your desires well without an install shop's biases and limits. Keep us posted.
 

greentips

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Nov 26, 2020
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20
Thank you! You addressed my major concern on whether to move the radio stack or not. I had tentatively decided against it, and have a design for it, as it sits.

As a physicist, I get paid to be skeptical and skeptical I am. On the WX900 one thought is to replace it with I think the WX600 which does integrate well into the Dynon and the GNS430w. I have been on trips where the scope picked up activity long before it showed up on the Lynx9000 adsB in. On one particular trip from southern MD to Fort Wayne, over Morgantown, I picked up a massive thermal in clear air, needed a block, for a 2k f/m updraft throttled back and pitched down. Center had nothing, ADS-B had nothing, but just as I passed west of the thermal and got back down to altitude all heck broke loose behind me on the scope. It was a full 5 minutes until the WST was issued and 5 minutes after that before the stuff showed up on the ADSB-in. At last year's (2019) OSH, the EAA had a scenario in a Mooney that ran afoul of this phenomenon in rapidly building weather NE of Albuquerque where the ADS-B lag time caused a crash. I flew that in their sim, saw the same situation build, knowing the lag, made more timely, but not timely enough decisions. What saved me in that situation is I knew the area well from flying gliders out of Moriarity NM, and knew of a strip in Las Lunas and got there before the actual WX got there. Good reinforcement.So, I'm planning on keeping on board weather in one form or another.

Likewise without either the King or the ADF, I'm down to one redundant nav system in the weather. If the GPS system were to fail or be jammed even though there are redundancies in the cockpit and satellites, it wouldn't take much to take this system out of service. About 5 years ago a company called Lightsquared jammed 1500 nm radius of GPS signal with a terrestrial transmitter as part of a test. The FCC then denied its request to use GPS guardband and they went bankrupt, but out of its ashes we are now dealing with the same incarnation in the form of Ligado who is proposing the exact same thing, with the exact same data and claiming physics of RF propagation has changed somehow. So, I plan to keep some redundancy, if not both. Since I'll have my engine instrumentation in the primary display, having the second on the copilots side will give me comfort, and these days, my student pilot wife takes the left seat more and more. I'll

My IA is watching me keenly, can't wait for me to finalize things and then wants me to help him build out his and two others. Appreciate the help. I'll get some pics of the present panel, but now I have a few new ideas to play with.
 

Dr.M

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Joined
Jul 25, 2019
Messages
15
Wow. Great real life stories. You should write a lessons-learned article for one of our many aviation mags. Your panel sounds very well thought out. Good job! Cant wait to see it.
 

GKC Aviation

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Joined
Oct 4, 2020
Messages
96
Dr.M: I am proceeding along your path. First thanks for the solid information here. I was wondering if you have any thoughts or insights on the Cessna C182 panel. My airplane is a bit unique in that Cessna used it for several years as a test airplane originating as a K model before finally passing on to the world as an M model, with all the factory options of the day. I have purchased the Dynon system with my IA doing the supervising work. I'll check the yoke runout to see how that looks, thanks for that advice. Thanks also for answering the debate on 0.080 v. 0.090 6061 material.

I too have removed probably 30-50 pounds of old wire left behind as avionics were upgraded between 1972 and 1990 when I bought the airplane. While tedious, I found it relaxing and I just couldn't help myself picking and unwinding those bits of history. I'm sure once I get ready to install the panel there will be more wire cleanup to do. Once I get started, I'll take and share the pics.

Now for the question: The present Cessna panel is the three piece panel, with the radio stack centered at the midline of the panel. At some point Cessna in later models (of 172 and I think 182) moved the radio stack from the midline to the right so that the right edge of the radios are at the midline. This gives room for the Dynon in my configuration giving me room to keep my WX900, KX155/KI209 backup and the Terra-100 ADF if I want and provides a very clean panel with space for the AP control when it finally reaches 182-space.

Do you have any thoughts on whether it is a good idea to move the radio stack 3.12" right to make more space for the 10" on the pilot side and use the 7" on the copilot side? Or keep it where its at on the midline. The radio attach rails are pretty well swiss cheesed from the mods over the years before I got the plane, so I would probably replace those in either case while I have the thing apart. The King cannot drive the Dynon, at least not directly as far as I know so I'll need to keep and place the indicator. I like redundancy.
Greentips, What model 182?
I just completed a 182Q with a 10" on the left and a 7" on the right.
MIH1.jpg
 
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